tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post7125646743295478836..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Marks of the amateur-- starting a listEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-34382860818856418172012-07-02T19:33:23.694-05:002012-07-02T19:33:23.694-05:0010. Improper thought tagging. We are now in an era...10. Improper thought tagging. We are now in an era where we have a point of view character, and we understand that the thoughts are from those person. You don't have to go all Enid Blyton and have speech in double quotes and thoughts in single quotes.<br /><br />Really. You don't use quote marks for thoughts. Because that just says to me that you haven't read an adult novel this century.Iolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199141868703826943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-54156432926151523242011-07-31T18:51:26.492-05:002011-07-31T18:51:26.492-05:00Three "F bombs" in two sentences could m...Three "F bombs" in two sentences could mean I'm writing dialogue that mimics my little brother's speaking habits. :-)<br /><br />Actually, great list and great comments.<br /><br />I'm not automatically opposed to a prologue, but it's often a bad idea.<br /><br />The number one mistake I see in the books I edit is starting the story too soon. "No no, don't stop reading yet, wait for the good part!" Nope. Not waiting. Start with the good part, and in fact delete everything that isn't good part.<br /><br />It is vital that you as the author develop the back story in full, but that doesn't mean you have to give the whole thing to the reader in a big fat infodump. Just gimme the interesting parts, in small doses as they become relevant.<br /><br />That's not necessarily the mark of an amateur, just the mark of an author who isn't ruthless enough in the self-editing department.Michael LaRoccahttp://www.editormichael.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-26191050881381757332011-02-09T11:08:29.810-06:002011-02-09T11:08:29.810-06:00Amen to everything you said! I love a good semicol...Amen to everything you said! I love a good semicolon--when used right and sparingly.<br /><br />I had a critique friend (who is usually quite good) say that my speech tag gave a weird image and suggested I change it to "he ejaculated."<br /><br />After trying to choke back laughter, I graciously disagreed. I think I reverted the passage to the trusty old SAID.Annette Lyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12493583432919249814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-17940866297057160232011-02-09T08:43:21.551-06:002011-02-09T08:43:21.551-06:00Anonymous:
Yes they do still teach 'any word ...Anonymous:<br /><br />Yes they do still teach 'any word but said' in schools. My son did it last year when he was seven.<br /><br />I nearly bit my tongue off trying not to contradict teacher, although I may have, um, *accidentally* introduced the concept of using action tags instead. And written him a story to prove my point, but that was an accident too. Totally.<br /><br />I didn't challenge, but I may have subverted. Just a little bit.<br /><br />Heh, do I get an amateur slap round the ear for my flagrant use of 'and' at the beginning of a sentence and other such crimes of wordsmithery?Jayalyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13555528579959785151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-71195477691500695562010-11-27T22:36:41.491-06:002010-11-27T22:36:41.491-06:00Pssst... Dale, you're not English, you're ...Pssst... Dale, you're not English, you're Welsh! Look at your last name! ;-]d'annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822983449151340504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-24229013904986513392010-09-07T13:52:14.831-05:002010-09-07T13:52:14.831-05:00The best way to get rid of short, choppy sentences...The best way to get rid of short, choppy sentences is to prescribe a dose of "The Best of Bad Hemingway". It is both effective and hilarious. As an added bonus, it takes the sting out of criticism. <br /><br />:)<br /><br />In terms of amateur moves, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned excessive use of parentheses. I try to remind myself that I'm not writing Lisp or Scheme, but fiction. However, unless you or someone you love is a programmer obsessed with (computer) languages, you may not get the reference.Talithahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00609037188135802885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-19669222455857254552010-05-26T19:00:51.126-05:002010-05-26T19:00:51.126-05:00It always makes me laugh to see editors/agents/wri...It always makes me laugh to see editors/agents/writers so down on creative quote tags. They annoy me too, so I understand.<br /><br />But...I remember an assignment in middle school where we were given a sheet of 100 something alternatives to "said" and then we were told to write a story without using the word "said." Because that made our writing better and more creative.<br /><br />I just hope they don't do that any more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-34893819884145890882009-10-21T19:08:08.433-05:002009-10-21T19:08:08.433-05:00"And improperly used semicolons? Even worse. ..."And improperly used semicolons? Even worse. It looks like a 10-year-old wearing mascara."<br /><br />This made me snort. Thanks, Alicia.<br /><br />It was great to see you in Toronto last weekend.Maureen McGowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00494408580378817045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-72088453639314452022009-10-15T11:26:50.895-05:002009-10-15T11:26:50.895-05:00Hi Alicia,
I thought of another one. How about o...Hi Alicia,<br /><br />I thought of another one. How about overwriting? As I'm always wrestling with my word count, I try to use the fewest amount of words necessary for the reader to visualize the action. I <i>think</i> that's a good thing. :)<br /><br />Here are some examples I thought of (and please tell me if I'm wrong about any of these!). I included the implied words that I don't think are necessary in parentheses.<br /><br /><i> - He approached (her).</i><br />If you're in POV strong enough, and another character is approaching your POV character, then you shouldn't need to specify.<br /><i> - He stood (up).</i><br />The reader wouldn't assume the character stood down! :)<br /><i> - He (reached out with his hands to take hold of) held her shoulders.</i><br />Unless the rest of the paragraph has been about his eyes and not him as a person, the reader would assume that he used his hands. :) And does it change the reader's visual while they're reading if you don't include the "reached out" ? In most cases, probably not, so it seems unnecessary.<br /><br />Again, please let me know if I'm wrong about any of these, but to me, they seem like padding.<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-52349755025249926742009-10-15T09:28:41.073-05:002009-10-15T09:28:41.073-05:00I come here to learn by my mistakes...I am never d...I come here to learn by my mistakes...I am never disappointed and always learn more than one thing!Glynis Peters https://www.blogger.com/profile/01175378917872403609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-44859455970535802852009-10-15T09:27:28.065-05:002009-10-15T09:27:28.065-05:00This is an awesome list and i'm happy to say t...This is an awesome list and i'm happy to say that i'm free of all those amateur issues (i, too, did not know what a "cute meet" was and i was glad to find out that is something i would never do). However i do occasionally partake in a prologue... <br />I have a writing buddy who i would never call amateur who is a big fan of short sentances. But that's his voice, he has a very stark style.Sarah Ahiershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02795455714801965956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-6097669496821519802009-10-14T20:43:20.389-05:002009-10-14T20:43:20.389-05:00Gee, Theresa, have you ever, just for a moment, th...Gee, Theresa, have you ever, just for a moment, thought that you might be wrong? You would have been mistaken, you know.<br /><br />;-)Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-697752916232586622009-10-14T20:26:40.616-05:002009-10-14T20:26:40.616-05:00I love seeing the list.
Thanks Alicia!:)I love seeing the list.<br />Thanks Alicia!:)emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-81779415312166823322009-10-14T16:37:14.049-05:002009-10-14T16:37:14.049-05:00Again with the semicolons. This would be a non-iss...Again with the semicolons. This would be a non-issue if Certain People would just accept that I'm always right. <br /><br /><br />@KayKayBe But I like throwing around obscenities. (kidding) (sort of)<br /><br />TheresaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-84383582282606387622009-10-14T16:10:37.392-05:002009-10-14T16:10:37.392-05:00How about instead of writing believable dialogue, ...How about instead of writing believable dialogue, throwing around obscenities? Three 'f-bombs' in two sentences says lack of creativity to me. It's a bit like overuse of exclamation points.Kelly Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324622421797199560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-54704374580808048552009-10-14T10:43:33.965-05:002009-10-14T10:43:33.965-05:00Rose, yes, often prologues are very intense, and s...Rose, yes, often prologues are very intense, and sometimes don't even name the character! I think thrillers do that a lot.Edittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-57865093000230676242009-10-14T09:28:17.614-05:002009-10-14T09:28:17.614-05:00Whenever I read those opening paragraphs on agent ...Whenever I read those opening paragraphs on agent websites (like Miss Snark's crapometers and everyone who's done things like that since) I'm struck by the number that start out with things like, "It all started when..." or "It was a normal day until..." Just really talky, without much going on.<br /><br />That, and starting with an incredibly intense scene (ie, usually murder or rape) before I've had time to get to know or care about the main character.Rose Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10752073931486321348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-90793116196328111182009-10-14T04:50:40.397-05:002009-10-14T04:50:40.397-05:00'Pondian', heh. Nice.
It would be easy t...'Pondian', heh. Nice. <br /><br />It would be easy to say the difference between couple and few is that couple is a noun and few is an adjective and so different rules apply.<br /><br />But the dictionaries don't quite agree. Couple is listed as an adjective (and noun) in Chambers, and as an adjectival compound as 'a couple of'. Merriam-Webster points out that it can be used correctly as an extra determiner, for example 'a couple more examples' to indicate degree.<br /><br />http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/couple<br /><br />M-W also says this: <br /><br /><i>couple<br />Function: adjective<br />Date: 1924<br /><br />: two; also : few —used with a "a couple drinks"<br />usage The adjective use of a couple, without of, has been called nonstandard, but it is not. In both British and American English it is standard before a word (as more or less) indicating degree "a couple more examples of Middle English writing — Charles Barber". Its use before an ordinary plural noun is an Americanism, common in speech and in writing that is not meant to be formal or elevated "the first couple chapters are pretty good — E. B. White (letter)" "still operated a couple wagons for hire — Garrison Keillor". It is most frequently used with periods of time "a couple weeks" and numbers "a couple hundred" "a couple dozen".</i><br /><br />Which is another way of saying 'Pondian' I suppose.<br /><br />I always did prefer Chambers, but if the dictionaries can't agree, we can't have much hope of resolving it. (Or should that be 'we can't have much hope resolving it'?)Dale Cynwynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-40195948651386504852009-10-13T19:18:51.090-05:002009-10-13T19:18:51.090-05:00I'm still shocked that some writers don't ...I'm still shocked that some writers don't use quotation marks. Ugh.<br /><br />Telling instead of showing should make the list somewhere.<br />:)<br />G.Genella deGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13129942813842907408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-43431178696611780412009-10-13T17:07:24.480-05:002009-10-13T17:07:24.480-05:00Dale, I found some usage site on the web where Ame...Dale, I found some usage site on the web where Americans and Brits exchange such conundrums. They call differences in usage "pondian"-- "I guess that's a pondian issue"-- meaning "across the Pond" (the Atlantic, I guess?). <br /><br />Anyway, "it's a pondian thing". You're right, we'd never say, "A herd cows." But then, we'd never say, "A few of horses." (But we would say, "A few of them." Hmm.)<br /><br />A wonderful language! Confusing though.<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-80774587011240612992009-10-13T16:23:50.961-05:002009-10-13T16:23:50.961-05:00Dale, here in the States the following are all com...Dale, here in the States the following are all common:<br /><br />a couple of (whatever)<br />a couple o' (whatever)<br />a couple (whatever)<br /><br />I've even seen the middle one phonetically spelled 'coupla'. You know how us bloody Yanks are. ;-)Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-68251408019432276952009-10-13T14:02:23.632-05:002009-10-13T14:02:23.632-05:00What about factual mistakes?
Published books by ...What about factual mistakes? <br /><br />Published books by Big Name authors sometimes slip by with errors, but I notice many more in contest entries I judge. Historicals are the worst. Granted, those manuscripts don't have the advantage of having been edited by a professional, but if there are glaring factual mistakes, I find the manuscript usually has other major issues, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-75398412367615895092009-10-13T12:38:04.846-05:002009-10-13T12:38:04.846-05:00Or as they say in the South, "a couple few co...Or as they say in the South, "a couple few cows"Andrew Rosenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09215333688753781447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-51391148298184285552009-10-13T12:27:51.407-05:002009-10-13T12:27:51.407-05:00Really? I'm English so maybe it's a dialec...Really? I'm English so maybe it's a dialect issue. So you use "couple" as an adjective? I'd see it strictly as a noun which denotes a group of two. I wouldn't say "a herd cows" or "a murder crows" or "a flock sheep". <br /><br />But I'll forgive a colloquialism.Dale Cynwynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-50004626855647520442009-10-13T12:23:18.119-05:002009-10-13T12:23:18.119-05:00I've heard a few of those:
"Don't sta...I've heard a few of those:<br />"Don't start with a dream sequence"<br />"Don't start by looking in the mirror"<br />"Don't write a prologue"<br /><br />Someone should write a book about these "rules"Andrew Rosenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09215333688753781447noreply@blogger.com