tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post656220046385359687..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Consistency: Not Just for Hobgoblins Any MoreEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-3425655700860579332008-08-19T11:19:00.000-05:002008-08-19T11:19:00.000-05:00I mean-- (carpal tunnel is making me typo):mostsju...I mean-- (carpal tunnel is making me typo):<BR/><BR/>mostsjustes, you must weigh in on semicolons. :)<BR/>AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-25245061738963946672008-08-16T20:31:00.000-05:002008-08-16T20:31:00.000-05:00For Teresa:http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chic...For Teresa:<BR/>http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/721833.html<BR/><BR/>From the article, just to whet your appetite:<BR/>A single page of Thomas Carlyle, or any nineteenth-century writer, reminds us, for instance, that a comma between subject and verb--for me the most offensive of all punctuation errors--was once perfectly acceptable.<BR/><BR/>Have you spewed your cornflakes yet? ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-43422559216859648282008-08-16T17:13:00.000-05:002008-08-16T17:13:00.000-05:00mostsjustes, you must weight i on semicolons. :)Al...mostsjustes, you must weight i on semicolons. :)<BR/>AliciaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-85238968562726549362008-08-15T19:59:00.000-05:002008-08-15T19:59:00.000-05:00As a writer and an editor of the literary journal ...As a writer and an editor of the literary journal <I>Southern California Review</I>, I, too, have "thought deeply" about punctuation and am "utterly convinced of the correctness of [my] personal beliefs" -- even, apparently, in a comment on a blog! I welcome discussion of such details -- both as a writer and an editor -- and frankly have been surprised when it hasn't taken place over what I would deem major punctuation changes. I'm glad I'm not the only one who takes this so seriously! Enjoy your blog, -aeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-61045130434930601942008-08-14T09:10:00.000-05:002008-08-14T09:10:00.000-05:00Punctuation is not bling. Hee! I'm giggling over...Punctuation is not bling. Hee! I'm giggling over that one here.<BR/><BR/>Jody W.Jody W. and Meankittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13733607365443126784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-5644066700267133052008-08-14T00:08:00.000-05:002008-08-14T00:08:00.000-05:00Well, seeing as I've just begun the search for an ...Well, seeing as I've just begun the search for an agent, if--oops I mean when--I get to the point of arguing over punctuation in a copy edit I'll be thrilled to give you the opportunity to say, "I told you so!" :-)<BR/><BR/>Once again, thanks--this is ever so helpful.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745786643511417426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-37511947447173021132008-08-13T22:49:00.000-05:002008-08-13T22:49:00.000-05:00Ali, as I understood the question, you were talkin...Ali, as I understood the question, you were talking about applying two sets of rules within the same book. My mistake. In that case, just be consistent. <BR/><BR/>And your example isn't merely a matter of punctuation. Sentence structure varies between the two examples, and sentence structure can have an impact on voice. What I'm talking about, for example, is the comma separating the independent clauses in your first sentence. How and when to use that particular comma will be a matter of house style. You can argue for or against it during edits and copy edits, but chances are they'll apply house style.<BR/><BR/>TheresaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-72053239345383868812008-08-13T22:43:00.000-05:002008-08-13T22:43:00.000-05:00Plenty of things are legitimately functional and y...Plenty of things are legitimately functional and yet don't belong in our kinds of books. When was the last time you saw the words "hereinbefore" or "hereinafter" in a beach read? Yet they're perfectly respectable and functional. There's a difference between functionality and appropriateness. <BR/><BR/>Don't be miffed. You two ganged up on me over that damned Oxford comma. <BR/><BR/>Theresa, right againEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-31545069757647730922008-08-13T21:20:00.000-05:002008-08-13T21:20:00.000-05:00Of course you can use semicolons in light genre fi...Of course you can use semicolons in light genre fiction. What, light genre fiction is written in a language other than English?<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't use semicolons often, because generally you should state (with a conjunction-- and, or, but, so) what the relationship between the two clauses is. But sometimes it's either so clear you don't have to state it, and sometimes you don't want to state it because it will be clumsy. Hence the semicolon.<BR/><BR/>Don't overuse, of course. But the semicolon would not be in the language if it didn't have a useful function.<BR/><BR/>Theresa, I canNOT believe you'd actually side with Lynn the Semicolon Slaughterer on this.<BR/>Alicia (miffed and, as always, right)Edittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-62101826443126647352008-08-13T21:18:00.000-05:002008-08-13T21:18:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Edittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-79375848130621251422008-08-13T19:55:00.000-05:002008-08-13T19:55:00.000-05:00Oh, one more thing. (Yes, she is being pesky!). I'...Oh, one more thing. (Yes, she <I>is</I> being pesky!). I'm not talking about using two styles--there wouldn't be an author voice, distinct from the protagonist's narrative voice, in a first-person p.o.v., would there?Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745786643511417426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-56221617485412767412008-08-13T19:49:00.000-05:002008-08-13T19:49:00.000-05:00I wonder why Alicia thought you'd have an opinion?...I wonder why Alicia thought you'd have an opinion? ;-)<BR/><BR/>This insight on the editing process and how it impacts this stuff is fascinating, thanks.<BR/><BR/>But: punctuation as voice, you don't buy? At the risk of being considered sort of pesky, can I give an example? <BR/><BR/>A) So, Bill asked for another chance borrowing my car, and I gave it to him. This was probably a stupid idea. Last time, he dinged the fender on a tree before he was three feet out of the driveway.<BR/><BR/>B)So Bill asked for another chance borrowing my car and I gave it to him, which was probably a stupid idea because last time he dinged the fender on a tree before he was three feet out of thet driveway.<BR/><BR/>I would consider both of those to be my voice as an author, either could be an 18-year-old protagonist, but the characters, in my mind, would be quite different. <BR/><BR/>I would argue that if my character is a (B) kind of guy, to write him like (A) would ring false, even if it were more grammatically correct, and even if (A) would be a fine voice for an (A) kind of character.<BR/><BR/>(This is written off the cuff, by the way--I make no claim that either are great writing. Trash with abandon).Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745786643511417426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-32627665017712466902008-08-13T19:13:00.000-05:002008-08-13T19:13:00.000-05:00Yeah, so let's discuss the oft-neglected and sadly...Yeah, so let's discuss the oft-neglected and sadly-misunderstood semicolon already!<BR/><BR/>*runs away and hides*<BR/><BR/>IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497045412007902460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-37415840859535138762008-08-13T16:35:00.000-05:002008-08-13T16:35:00.000-05:00I learned in an advanced editing masterclass on th...I learned in an advanced editing masterclass on the weekend that the Russian Revolution started over the comma... my retort was 'that's why they're commanunists' didn't go down well with the editors.. darn.<BR/>Apparently the printers were getting paid by the type, except commas, so they started striking over it, then the rest sort of snowballed. So in a nutshell, don't mess with editors or printers, there's bound to be a comma in it somewhere. ,,,Natalie Hatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09377665702278806398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-80748336044909051482008-08-13T16:27:00.000-05:002008-08-13T16:27:00.000-05:00OMG! This makes academics look collegial. When I...OMG! This makes academics look collegial. When I was a professor I tried to keep in mind a quote from Woodrow Wilson who had been president of Princeton. It went something like "The reason politics in academia are so vicious is that the stakes are so small."Weshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077791761104576436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-58154154662594988682008-08-13T16:18:00.000-05:002008-08-13T16:18:00.000-05:00Adrian, that's an interesting dilemma. I think jar...Adrian, that's an interesting dilemma. I think jargon presents a special case, and that's really what you're dealing with. So dialogue/dialog is less a matter of house style and more a matter of vocabulary. I have a question, though. How do you set up the distinction between these terms in the text? Do you? Or do you just use them contextually and expect the reader to roll with it? I'm not advocating for either choice; I'm just curious about how you've handled it.<BR/><BR/>Kim, I'm sorry we didn't get the chance to raise a glass in SF. It's always fun to hang out with you.<BR/><BR/>Liane, quit worrying. We love your writing. :)<BR/><BR/>TheresaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-56754647422736919422008-08-13T14:47:00.000-05:002008-08-13T14:47:00.000-05:00Sorry for the double-post. I found Robert Sawyer'...Sorry for the double-post. I found Robert Sawyer's notes to his copy editor: http://www.sfwriter.com/copyedit.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-26661208278502659792008-08-13T14:42:00.000-05:002008-08-13T14:42:00.000-05:00Canadian Science Fiction writer Robert Sawyer has ...Canadian Science Fiction writer Robert Sawyer has an article somewhere on his massive site (http://www.sfwriter.com/) about his battles with copy-editors when the house style didn't make sense for the novel.<BR/><BR/>The instances I can think of where about issues other than punctuation itself. For example, <I>earth</I> is a perfectly fine word for our planet, but if you're constantly referring to other planets in our solar system, then it's probably more consistent to call it <I>Earth</I> (capital <I>E</I>). Other examples included words and phrases he coined for the speculative technologies in his book.<BR/><BR/>He found that including a single-page reference on top of the manuscript that says, in effect, "these exceptions from the house style are on purpose and applied consistently", then he got his way. Of course, he's a big deal.<BR/><BR/>I, on the other hand, am a newbie working a first-person mystery in which the sleuth is a software engineer--a persona I'm quite familiar with. I know there are going to be things that confuse or annoy editors. For example, speeches in a story are called <I>dialogue</I>, but interactive windows in an application's user interface are <I>dialog</I> boxes--without the <I>ue</I>. And, as used by software engineers, the word <I>data</I> is almost always singular, not plural. If I'm lucky enough to sell this work, I doubt I'll have enough sway to keep these from being changed. In my mind, that's a shame, because it's part of the character/narrator's voice. It'll lose a bit of authenticity in the eyes of readers familiar with this world.<BR/><BR/>As a reader, I wonder about the value of a house style. I want the books I read to be self-consistent. I expect books in a series to have a certain consistency. But I don't have any expectation that various books from a particular publisher will be the same in terms of these stylistic choices. Assuming that the publisher's imprint on a book sets any sort of expectations for me, then it's probably more about the kinds of stories, which is a much higher level than serial commas, British spelling, and odd capitalization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-59921177690309782232008-08-13T14:06:00.000-05:002008-08-13T14:06:00.000-05:00Criminy! Why didn't I read this before I turned in...Criminy! Why didn't I read this before I turned in a certain revision.<BR/><BR/>Was it not enough that you cured me of serial em-dashery? Do I have to relinquish my semi colons, too? <BR/><BR/>Nooooooooooooooooo-o-o-o-o. :-)<BR/><BR/>(I really did read the style guide, honest!)Liane Gentry Skyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13393035282032592271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-65478065401910838302008-08-13T13:53:00.000-05:002008-08-13T13:53:00.000-05:00I really, really want to come hang out with y'all....I really, really want to come hang out with y'all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com