tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post4954377674748683614..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Core ConflictsEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-12420393203482267472009-09-24T17:59:20.162-05:002009-09-24T17:59:20.162-05:00Sarah,
Oh, a need for the sense of normalcy on th...Sarah,<br /><br />Oh, a need for the sense of normalcy on the part of Drago... I like it. :)<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-44537640291201656532009-09-24T17:10:52.432-05:002009-09-24T17:10:52.432-05:00Wow! I liked this. I was pulled in because a close...Wow! I liked this. I was pulled in because a close friend of mine is from Bosnia- she moved here after the war. I visited the mountains in central Bosnia with her this summer- amazing and sobering experience. <br /><br />Anyway, I'd like to throw some thoughts in about Drago. <br /><br />He might have a sense of physical invulnerability. He survived when no one else did. This is not a guy who's going to be scared of walking alone at night. (And he might take it too far.) However, he might also be overly protective of those really close to him. He knows that the worst can happen. It can happen again and again.<br /><br />I think while most of him is ticked off by Johnny, part of him will envy Johnny- not Johnny's social status per se, but the fact that Johnny is normal. Johnny never went hungry. Johnny never worried that he might die. Johnny never saw others die. Johnny doesn't still dream about it. And that twinge of envy could make Drago resent Johnny more. <br /><br />In fact, I think normalcy might be a big motivation for Drago- a huge desire in his personal life. He doesn't want to be the refugee- especially to people who have no idea of what it's like to survive genocide. He wants to be the guy with the normal life. And a return to normalcy is part of justice, if you think about it. Any sort of violence removes normalcy from a person's life. <br /><br />I hate to hit and run so deep in the exercise, but I just had to chime in.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06909176210194176373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-50810316243267427952009-09-24T11:14:35.655-05:002009-09-24T11:14:35.655-05:00em,
no, still getting far too many crashes from bl...em,<br />no, still getting far too many crashes from blogger, but can't stay away - but if I comment early, I can get comments e-mailed and don't have to refresh as much. Can't stay away for long.<br /><br />I don't think that Drago loses. If Johnny is pitched against someone who competes on the same turf - only with less money and less self-assurance, he will win. Drago can only win if he shifts the battleground. In my scene, he<br />is saying 'I don't care how big the muckheap you're crowing on is, *this* is what is important.' That makes Johnny look like a spoilt brat, and gives Drago the edge.green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-33519181875871651202009-09-24T11:01:15.869-05:002009-09-24T11:01:15.869-05:00LOL! Murphy! First I'm sick and then my compu...LOL! Murphy! First I'm sick and then my computer goes on the fritz and I'm using my brother's laptop dinosaur. I can't cut and paste from WORD as good with no mouse.:) one half of that should have been on the previous post and the other comment pasted under your lightning bolt comment. Sorry.:) Crisis, Yeah, this stupid technology is getting me down.:(emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-71134817371022297872009-09-24T07:57:37.653-05:002009-09-24T07:57:37.653-05:00John,
I like the idea that Drago has an edge.
@...John,<br />I like the idea that Drago has an edge. <br /><br />@Em, What? Are you having a crisis, I should know about?<br /><br />Murphy:DRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-19727198573966729002009-09-23T22:11:15.194-05:002009-09-23T22:11:15.194-05:00Hey green_knight, Welcome back! Hope you got you...Hey green_knight, Welcome back! Hope you got your posting problems squared away? Great comment.<br />Murphy:)emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-41468961630111813682009-09-23T21:58:51.402-05:002009-09-23T21:58:51.402-05:00I did it!
I see that Drago feels socially inadequa...I did it!<br />I see that Drago feels socially inadequate. He tries to make up for it and he loses because John, and he goes by John in this meeting, uses this against him. Drago wants to get his passion across so badly that he forgets everything else. I like Dragp not having time to look at the menu when they all have plenty of time to do this. Then John just lets him continue on in his downward dip. If you were the Doctor who would you want to hire?<br />Em:)emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-7996863093521266342009-09-23T21:36:14.981-05:002009-09-23T21:36:14.981-05:00Murph, and JG, you started all this with the conde...Murph, and JG, you started all this with the condescending/ comfortable/uncomfortable aspect of the characters. I like the gauche vs finesse line. In my scene, Drago ,ordered fish and had to have the Doctor point out the right fork to eat it with. Johnny was inwardly ecstatic. Brilliant. Thanks for the nudge Murph, this was fun.:)<br />BabsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-5354041727487043242009-09-23T21:30:34.367-05:002009-09-23T21:30:34.367-05:00John,
I like how you've identified that Drago...John,<br /><br />I like how you've identified that Drago has his own brand of arrogance. Very cool!<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-11889215022359498702009-09-23T20:22:59.507-05:002009-09-23T20:22:59.507-05:00My Draco has become almost robotic because of his ...My Draco has become almost robotic because of his past history. He has had to work tooth and nail, scraping every dollar together to start his new life and get to where he has. <br /><br />Thus Draco thinks he is superior to others and has no sympthay for anyone who hasn’t gone through what he has, i.e everyone around him. They think they have hard lives but they have nothing on him.<br /><br />So Draco is a bit aloof, sees himself as stronger than others, like Johnny, that he has earnt this scholarship that it should be his. <br /><br />He views the world throuh cold staring eyes, with disdain at everyone. <br /><br />But with all this, he is still down to earth, living with his mum, looking after her, making her meals everynight (he has never had takeout, such a wasteful thing, takeout)<br /><br />Come the fancy restaurant and like everyone else says, Draco is a bit flummoxed. He hides his insecurity as he knows he can't fail. <br /><br />Johnny however shows him up with apparent knowledge on things upperclass which make Draco begin to think that perhaps Johnny has done his homework and is a serious opponent. <br /><br />Draco must rely on his passion and nobility of purpose. He thinks himself stronger than Johnny, but his past has made his aware of the fact that being different makes him the scapegoat or the 'nearly ran' so becomes paranoid of this fact and tries harder and harder but just makes things worse for himself.<br /><br />Meanwhile, Johnny, the cool, fast thinking Johnny, just plays his natural game and watches Draco self destruct. He doesn't even seize on the opportunity, just gives Draco a sad nod in compassion.<br /><br />This was calculated and fires up Draco even more. <br /><br />The doctor knows that being a doctor is about handling stressful situations and dealing with people. Draco may have the right ideas but he is doing it wrong, so he fails and Johnny wins.<br /><br />------<br /><br />Not sure if I went deep enough here, but I did do the in and out analysis to see how Draco's past effects him now. I didn't really figure out how to show your first two questions.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-83611365682302226062009-09-23T19:59:05.017-05:002009-09-23T19:59:05.017-05:00Wow, Green Knight, your story had my stomach in kn...Wow, Green Knight, your story had my stomach in knots. I admit your preference for Drago over Johnny.<br /><br />How far are we going to keep going with Johnny et al? This is really great.Natalienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-38400046873096561902009-09-23T15:21:48.881-05:002009-09-23T15:21:48.881-05:00Hi Natalie!
I agree. In my version it didn't ...Hi Natalie!<br />I agree. In my version it didn't become uncomfortable for all of them until the end. And, you have to keep in mind, that I focused in more on telling Johnny's side of things, as I dated the darling boy in the last post we did on him.:) Yes, (insert sigh here) even though he dumped me like a hot potato, I'm kind of loyal that way...<br />MurphyRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-11745223340164074122009-09-23T14:46:33.672-05:002009-09-23T14:46:33.672-05:00I'm playing catch-up on this thread. Green Kn...I'm playing catch-up on this thread. Green Knight, you've got a winner there too with a very different approach. <br /><br />This excercise has produced some complex characters and interesting scenes. Great blog!Weshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077791761104576436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-89029223556486558262009-09-23T14:32:44.285-05:002009-09-23T14:32:44.285-05:00Natalie,
Excellent story line. That's a winne...Natalie,<br />Excellent story line. That's a winner.Weshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077791761104576436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-65766864815583336742009-09-23T13:45:25.727-05:002009-09-23T13:45:25.727-05:00that's very powerful
Thank, Theresa. I think ...<i>that's very powerful</i><br /><br />Thank, Theresa. I think the danger for me would be to turn Johnny into a cardboard caricature (and I've just had an exchange with a 60-odd year old member of that species, so no, they don't necessarily grow up and change.)<br /><br />If I were writing it, I would be spending more time in Johnny's head to find out what kind of guy he is at the core, to learn his good sides. And the story I'd go for is the one where Dr. Cannon weighs them up and finds both wanting - because while Johnny might lack compassion and ability to adapt, Drago has too much of a temper, is too angry. What she'll do in my story is to offer to split the post - it'll still pay their bills, but barely. Not a problem for Johnny, and Drago knows he can rough it. <br /><br />At that point, they'll have to learn to work together, and that's when I would try to develop the relationship between them. <br /><br />And, y'know, I can see it working as a book.green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-13097753643660739912009-09-23T12:31:07.502-05:002009-09-23T12:31:07.502-05:00Green knight, that's very powerful. I like how...Green knight, that's very powerful. I like how you've created an explicit emotional context for each character, and have shown how these contexts influence each other. I like this image of Drago as a volcano, simmering with pressure until at last he blows. There's a lot of drama here.<br /><br />It can be hard to *like* all of our characters, but fortunately, it isn't necessary. It's better if we avoid reducing them to caricatures, but that's a different issue. :) <br /><br />TheresaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-5615823073016022892009-09-23T11:48:39.233-05:002009-09-23T11:48:39.233-05:00I'm afraid I don't like Johnny. I don'...I'm afraid I don't like Johnny. I don't like his entitlement, I don't like the sneer he gives when he walks in and compares Drago's matching jacket-and-trousers with his own expensive suit; I don't like how he's researched Dr. Cannon's background so he can make a little quip about her hobbies, or the way he manages to bring up his unblemished school record and the extracurricular activities he's managed to fit in. <br /><br />Drago is nervous and feels the pressure, and that makes him less talkative and more confrontational. He's got nothing to match Johnny's tales of the Vineyard with; talking about a hut with outdoor toilets just won't do, particularly not in this softly-lit, softly-spoken environment that is too fragile, too unreal. <br /><br />Johnny orders lobster after confirming its origins. Drago asks the waiter for a recommendation and winces at the cost; no, he's *angry* that so much money should be spent on food when it would do more good elsewhere. Johnny orders a bottle of a mid-range vintage, Drago nurses a single Budvar. <br /><br />As the evening unfolds, Johnny becomes bolder. He and Dr. Cannnon seem to have so much in common - acquaintances, lifestyle, background. He flirts with Dr. Cannon - not too much, but enough to flatter her. Drago listens, stone-faced, until it bursts out of him: "Why are we here?" he asks angrily, and slams the bottle back onto the table. "Why are we talking about <i>golf handicaps</i>?" He starts to lay out what _he_ wants from an internship: not just the rich, private patients, but an assignment abroad, at the front lines of medicine, so to speak. He becomes more passionate, more animated. <br /><br />...green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-73831119662634435252009-09-23T10:40:12.100-05:002009-09-23T10:40:12.100-05:00OK, just have to share this.
Word verification f...OK, just have to share this. <br /><br />Word verification for my last comment:<br />poldoc<br /><br />Go figure. <br /><br />TheresaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-1324901105504804662009-09-23T10:39:37.826-05:002009-09-23T10:39:37.826-05:00Natalie, I think that's an excellent and compe...Natalie, I think that's an excellent and compelling scenario. And it would make an intense scene, wouldn't it? There's so much simmering under the surface, and yet it's a civilized meal in an elegant setting. Not all conflicts are fistfights.<br /><br />I wonder if Johnny might also feel a little niggle of self-doubt somewhere along the way. He's got to understand on some level how shallow his concerns are when compared to Drago's experiences, but I think he would quickly reach the, "Gosh, I'm lucky, yay me," attitude and sweep any self-doubt aside.<br /><br />Jami, I like the way you characterize Johnny's response as taking the high road. He would see it that way. I think you've found an honest way to express his character, even though he's not entirely sympathetic. But finding a way to do that -- not to *get* inside a character's head, but to *be* inside it while you're thinking through his responses -- goes a long way toward making compelling characters. It's not always about whether we like, respect, or agree with a character. But it is always about making them accessible to the readers, and it sounds like you're getting there. <br /><br />Here's a question. Drago might not know a fish fork from a salt cellar. Does he try to cover up his ignorance, or does he flaunt it?<br /><br />TheresaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-67600189477705293012009-09-23T09:57:06.569-05:002009-09-23T09:57:06.569-05:00Murphy,
Interesting that we both had the Dr. orde...Murphy,<br /><br />Interesting that we both had the Dr. ordering a salad! :) Yes, I could easily see things going the way you mentioned.<br /><br />Natalie,<br /><br />Yes, I also saw Drago's story resonating with the Dr., but as you mentioned, I thought he'd get too eager/pushy/passionate about his opinions. (Almost going into a socio-political conversation, but not quite.) So I can see how Johnny would attempt to take "the high road" as you suggested in that situation. Good job, this is fun!<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-45302764354707445302009-09-23T09:07:08.921-05:002009-09-23T09:07:08.921-05:00Murph, I've been sick so I'm playing catch...Murph, I've been sick so I'm playing catch up here. I'll have time to try this, this afternoon. It does sound like fun. <br />Em:)emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-21490947748764837082009-09-23T07:47:07.728-05:002009-09-23T07:47:07.728-05:00This really is fun. I don't necessarily see th...This really is fun. I don't necessarily see the meeting as being a disaster the whole way through. Yes, Drago's lack of comfort in a fancy setting is clear and Johnny gets even more suave in the face of it. But Drago also has something in common with the Dr.: his story. She works with Doctors without Borders, so she's presumably gone to places like his country of origin. They may be able to talk about very specific things that Johnny has no clue about, and when someone else is talking genocide, you can't switch the topic to the country club without looking like an ass, so he sits with the same fake-sympathetic smile on his face that he'll use on his patients when he is a doctor. <br /><br />But Drago will get too passionate about the conversation, about what he would do in his future, about how he would treat his patients. Johnny moves beyond irritated to angry -- how can this guy think he'll be a good doctor, doctors need to be dispassionate, not all into the lives of their patients. Johnny gets cooler when he gets angry, so he's able to introduce this topic at the uncomfortable moment with only the barest extra vibration in his voice. "It's interesting how different experiences lead to different philosophies of patient care..." He will charmingly turn the conversation in a more theoretical direction, highlighting his strengths. I think it's after this point, after each man has presented himself most fully that the lunch turns disastrous for each man: they turn each other into a caricature and "beat each other up" (not actually, just conversationally) such that neither looks good by the end, although both were awesome in their own way at the beginning.Natalienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-23884491389371771172009-09-22T22:50:33.748-05:002009-09-22T22:50:33.748-05:00Hmm..JG, I had it that Drago was so busy trying to...Hmm..JG, I had it that Drago was so busy trying to explain to the Dr. why he'd be excited to do the internship and stuff, that when the waiter came to the table he was unprepared to order as he hadn't looked at the menu - the waiter asks the Dr. for her order. She orders a Caesar salad - no anchovies, no bacon, no croutons and dressing on the side. The waiter turns to Johnny. Johnny knows Drago is unprepared, so he graciously offers to allow him to order before him. Drago doesn't want to fumble looking at the menu, so he says that he'll have the same as the Dr. When the waiter turns on Johnny, instead of ordering right away, Johnny asks the waiter how he is? The waiter is noticeably put at ease and is pleased that he's been acknowledged. Then Johnny orders his lunch. It's very precise, although it's a switched up version of something they have on their menu and will need to be changed - it's not so outrageous a demand that anyone would balk at it. The point my Johnny was making? Was finesse. Who had it, and who didn't...We're so close there JG.:DRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-27180071405605653672009-09-22T22:02:00.342-05:002009-09-22T22:02:00.342-05:00BTW, I do agree with Murphy, the lunch does not go...BTW, I do agree with Murphy, the lunch does not go well for either of them. :) Johnny's comfortable in the fancy restaurant environment, Drago is intimidated. Johnny gets cocky and arrogant when he sees Drago's discomfort. Drago gets overeager and almost pushy in his efforts to get the Dr. to see his positive qualities. Johnny orders something impressive-sounding to show his refined tastes, Drago orders the chicken (how weird can chicken be, right?). When the Dr. orders a simple salad, Johnny feels like he overstepped, Drago feels relieved, etc., etc. These two boys just can't keep from playing off of each others' weaknesses and they both come off looking bad. :)<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-7390628355136435522009-09-22T21:49:39.570-05:002009-09-22T21:49:39.570-05:00Teresa & Murphy,
It's interesting that Mu...Teresa & Murphy,<br /><br />It's interesting that Murphy mentions how she let the scene unfold without a purpose in mind and so the characters did things she didn't expect. I guess that's the way I always write - but then again, we've already established that my characters talk to me <b>all</b> the time, seriously, they never shut up. (Reason #1 I started writing this story...) Anyway, I go into a scene knowing <i>why</i> it exists, but I leave all the details up to the characters. I'm often surprised when I reread what I wrote the night before (<i>I</i> wrote that???). :)<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.com