tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post4673845571892201388..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Commas-- a couple easy rulesEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-36273262192042873542008-08-12T06:12:00.000-05:002008-08-12T06:12:00.000-05:00Okay, I'm confused. I also use commas to signal pa...Okay, I'm confused. I also use commas to signal pauses in dialogue or discourse. <BR/><BR/>Neither my agent or editor has ever complained.<BR/><BR/>I love reading this blog, but sometimes I wonder a lot about the relationship between the mechanics and the result. You're teaching us better mechanics -- and that's great, because it makes our manuscripts look professional - but what about the writers with great mechanics and stories from hell?<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that above and beyond the micro detail of storytelling, there is the macro, and that's the stuff that most people can't get together.<BR/><BR/>I guess I'm saying there's more to writing than mechanics, than the details. They are absolutely, without doubt important, but there are plenty of workshopping writers out there with perfectly placed commas and absolutely no idea on how to construct a good story or build a believable character.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-34754243718872304442008-08-11T14:57:00.000-05:002008-08-11T14:57:00.000-05:00Ali, good question!Theoretically, dialogue doesn't...Ali, good question!<BR/>Theoretically, dialogue doesn't have to follow the rules of grammar, because spoken English is much more informal. However, punctuation itself is more a function of written English, so you've pinpointed the danger, that the agent or editor will assume that you don't know grammar and punctuation if you don't use it properly in dialogue.<BR/><BR/>NEVER "insert plenty of commas" -- because using too many commas is just as much a marker of the amateur than using too few. Get to to know the rules. Use punctuation properly in the narration (non-dialogue) of your story, and of course in the query letter-- you should do that no matter what. :)<BR/><BR/>As far as dialogue, well, I have to say, your voice should not depend on punctuation, and neither should the character's speaking voice. A very occasional non-standard punctuation marker can probably help dialogue, but as Theresa said recently about ellipses, if that's absolutely essential to dialogue, the words themselves are lacking-- aren't perhaps chosen well-- and the sentence construction should carry the rhythm, not the punctuation. <BR/><BR/>I guess I'd say, as I say about every non-standard feature-- less is more. (Except, apparently, with me and dashes. :) The more correctly you punctuate everything, the more likely the reader is to understand that the very occasional breaking of the rules is done for effect.<BR/><BR/>So try the dialogue first with standard punctuation, and do everything you can to make it "sound" right without breaking the rules. Then, if ONLY by breaking the comma rules (and I have to say, I break out in hives when I see one comma and not the other when they're supposed to be in pairs, but I'm clearly too sensitive :) can you achieve the "sound" you want... well, you know what I'd probably do. The copy I'd submit to begin with would be pristine, every comma in its proper place. Then, if/when the story is bought and paid for, the copy I'd turn in for editing might have the non-standard aspects (absolutely as few as I can stand), and I'd explain my reasoning to the editor. IF the editor says, "Sorry, no way, gotta do it right," I'd let it go. (The copy editor will probably "fix" any non-standardness anyway... very little non-standard is going to get past TWO good editors, alas or rather fortunately.)<BR/><BR/>That is, wait till you've got the check before you get too innovative. That's what I'd do. Hey, that's what I -have- done. <BR/><BR/>I am altogether too fond of a new technique used by some writers to indicate staccato thought-- periods after each word in a short sentence or fragment. Not to get too political, this not being a political blog, but the first time I saw it was on a tote bag with a picture of He Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned Here and underneath: Worst. President. Ever.<BR/><BR/>Those periods really helped emphasize the decisiveness of that. Now I think once a book is enough for that-- anymore would diminish the impact-- but it's a good example of how non-standard punctuation can be used (but only when everything else is standard so the non stands out). <BR/>Doubt if this helps, but... :)<BR/>AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-87526284888978485132008-08-11T12:25:00.000-05:002008-08-11T12:25:00.000-05:00I have a question about comments and voice. One wo...I have a question about comments and voice. One woman in my critique group keeps inserting commas in places in my manuscript where I would probably ordinarily use one, but my narrator/protagonist wouldn't. I wish I could find an example, but take my word for it that they aren't as blatant as the examples you gave. (Omit either of the commas in the two previous sentences and you'll get the idea). <BR/><BR/>To my mind, the missing commas are part of this young man's voice. I guess my question is, am I making a mistake by counting on an agent/editor to recognize that? (This doesn't mean he or she will necessarily <I>like</I> the voice, but there's a difference between not liking a voice and thinking "oh, look, this person can't write!") Should I make an extra effort, Alicia, when writing a query letter, to insert plenty of commas, to prove that I'm quite capable of using them properly?Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16745786643511417426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-54370434166961419452008-08-11T06:33:00.000-05:002008-08-11T06:33:00.000-05:00I see misuse of commas in books on occasion and it...I see misuse of commas in books on occasion and it drives me nuts! I love Eats, Shoots and Leaves, given to me by a former boss when I left to persue writing.Dara Edmondsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03074955377079380225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-41217545582375196702008-08-10T22:42:00.000-05:002008-08-10T22:42:00.000-05:00I know... it's so rude to correct a letter and sen...I know... it's so rude to correct a letter and send it back. But the impulse is nearly irresistible, isn't it?<BR/><BR/>I got the CD (audio) of Eats, Shoots and Leaves and played it when we were in England. The author reads it-- hilarious. She talked about how when she was in grade school, she got a pen pal who didn't use proper punctuation... hilarious. I know we can all identify!<BR/>Alicia<BR/>AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-64121400318578750882008-08-10T22:10:00.000-05:002008-08-10T22:10:00.000-05:00Eats, Shoots & Leaves was the best book about ...<I>Eats, Shoots & Leaves</I> was the best book about punctuation I've ever read.<BR/><BR/>We just got a letter of introduction from my oldest son's fourth grade teacher. She misused commas throughout it. My wife had to tear it out of my hand BECAUSE I WANTED TO CORRECT IT!Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497045412007902460noreply@blogger.com