tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post8611604528762353486..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Subjective/Objective case-- your thoughts?Edittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-9035624240939328092009-06-30T23:45:08.714-05:002009-06-30T23:45:08.714-05:00Hi,
I think in order to get this right, you have ...Hi,<br /><br />I think in order to get this right, you have to go back to the context of the sentence.<br /><br />I have no insight into what prompted he and the Post to part ways.<br /><br />This is probably in response the the question: What prompted them to part ways?<br /><br />By combining the two entities into one pronoun, we can see that "them" is the object of prompted and "to part ways" is a prep. phrase.<br /><br />I have no insight into (repeat the question that prompted this sentence) what prompted them to part ways.<br /><br />So, changing "them" back to two entities, it's clear it should be "him" not "he".<br /><br />I have no insight into what prompted him and the Post to part ways.<br /><br />Before I wrote this, both "he" and "him" looked wrong. Now "him" looks solidly correct.<br /><br />-- Jue LeeJue Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-27062111676450594682009-06-21T11:29:54.519-05:002009-06-21T11:29:54.519-05:00I have no insight into what prompted he and the Po...<i>I have no insight into what prompted he and the Post to part ways.</i><br /><br />This is my favorite kind of puzzle, so I took a few hours to do some research.<br /><br />The verb "prompt" takes an object and an infinitive:<br /><br />I prompted him to leave.<br /><br />In traditional grammar, this construction is called accusative with infinitive. Here's the Wikipedia address with further links to transformational grammar.<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusative_and_infinitive<br /><br />The same applies to your variation with "see": I saw him leave.<br />"See" takes a "bare" infinitive without the "to".<br /><br />It's funny, though, that it becomes a lot more difficult with a compound object "him and the Post". I guess we don't have insight into this because it was between he and the Post. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-29624664212640745592009-06-20T21:32:54.103-05:002009-06-20T21:32:54.103-05:00MitMoi, communication is all. And as you say, the ...MitMoi, communication is all. And as you say, the listener knows what it means. (That doesn't mean the editor won't fix it, but so what?)<br />Laura:<br />I think it has to be complex and arcane so I can spend ALL AFTERNOON puzzling over it. Some people do crosswords. I puzzle over arcane grammar problems! <br />But you know, if none of us can really prove the "right" answer, it might just taking getting to that point and then decide that whatever we decide, having gotten that far in thinking, is right. <br /><br />Anon, I'm thinking we should listen to the rhythms and purposes of real speech-- not for narrative, maybe, but for dialogue. You give a good example of why "Brody and me" will work-- when "me" has a particular purpose in saying it that way, to convince Mom that Brody will keep him safe.<br /><br />Brody is T's nephew, btw, and the eldest, so he's the one who probably is supposed to be hyper-responsible!<br />AEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-1921655870619351842009-06-20T21:07:01.089-05:002009-06-20T21:07:01.089-05:00I'm SOOO glad you enjoy delving into this rule...I'm SOOO glad you enjoy delving into this rule. And I can tell you no matter how long I write - and no matter how much I want to learn and grow, I will never, ever succeed in unraveling this mystery. <br /><br />Unflatteringly, I will never care. I never get "He and I/me" right. Yet somehow I am understood. Those who understand the rules might be looking down their noses - but still - they understand what I say.<br /><br /><i>I have no insight into what prompted he and the Post to part ways.</i><br /><br />Perhaps it's not grammarically correct but I understand what's been written. Someone no longer works at the Post.<br /><br />Why does it have to be so complicated and arcane? <br />< /frustrated non- English major/non-grammarian rant >MitMoihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05748735568467215959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-57262347425109389562009-06-20T19:44:26.660-05:002009-06-20T19:44:26.660-05:00I hear all those moms saying "Brody and I, de...I hear all those moms saying "Brody and I, dear. Brody and I." <br /><br />But I think there's a place for "Brody and me." <br />Mom asks: "Where are you going, dear?" <br />Kid responds: "Brody and me are going to store."<br /><br />The interpretation is, "I'm going to the store, Mom, but don't worry. Brody's going with me."<br /><br />Thanks for the great post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-9689908031864900522009-06-20T17:40:48.338-05:002009-06-20T17:40:48.338-05:00I really, really hate "whom" because so ...I really, really hate "whom" because so many people get it wrong. Generally, I think it's one of those things that if you have even the slightest, tiniest hint of doubt, you should go with "who."<br /><br />>>Well, I don't know. I can't explain it, but by gum, that should be "him". I just know it. I can't say why.<<<br /><br />Yeah. I think it has to do with the way we read. If I am reading along and I read "she saw," I expect an object to follow. If you give me "he" instead of "him" at that point, I am going to...er...dispute it. On the other hand, if you give me the Post first, it can function as either subject or object, so I will be less likely to complain. <br /><br />So now we have "I have no insight into what she saw the Post and he dispute." Which doesn't sound as bad to me (aside from the awkwardness), because "he" is absolutely the subject of "dispute", and proximity gives it the sound of rectitude, while the Post doesn't give away its subjective or objective nature.<br /><br />Which doesn't answer your question.Laura K. Curtishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444534759113332744noreply@blogger.com