tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post8523565319865049864..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: He who hesitates is foundEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-35033398048806074302010-01-12T13:08:46.950-06:002010-01-12T13:08:46.950-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.sanjeethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043304632873778108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-17484601128074130952010-01-10T10:04:53.439-06:002010-01-10T10:04:53.439-06:00Murph, I'm glad you are not my nurse!;) After ...Murph, I'm glad you are not my nurse!;) After reading your last comment though, I got a headache and might need one. You are not related to Alicia, by any chance, are you?:)emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-55709087188730486152010-01-09T15:07:03.549-06:002010-01-09T15:07:03.549-06:00Alicia:
Yes, I was thinking that all the external...Alicia:<br /><br />Yes, I was thinking that all the external forces (stumbling blocks) the character must go through to get to the point of final resolve of their main conflict - will create internal growth and change ( say, a caring woman out for vengeance, will no doubt learn strengths that she never knew she had during this journey and that could be a good thing) - and what would make that more interesting in the end, would be interweaving what used matter to that unenlightened or naive character (strictly wanting to save lives) with what (because of forced change) is now important to that enlightened and wiser (maybe some lives don’t deserve to be saved) character she’s become. You could make that forced growth - an ironic secondary conflict upon the main conflict itself. As in the case of your nurse example. This is what I meant about it being beneficial to a character’s growth as an individual. I mean, could your nurse truly understand the value of life and loss without having first experienced the bad guy killing her mother? Then maybe - through her journey from her initial ‘naive' state to a ‘wiser’ one - she becomes strong enough to resist the urge - when opportunity presents itself - to culminate the revenge she’s craved from the beginning and which brought her to this point? Thus she realizes how well suited she is to this profession - as you may not always like the person you have to care for - type deal - but you must rise above your personal desires to do your job. That’s what I was thinking.<br /><br />Of course, if it were me writing the nurse scenario - I’d have her save the killer’s life - accepting that revenge wasn’t right - but then when she sees his latest victim clinging to life hours later, she makes a conscious decision. She won’t kill him, instead she’ll let him live the quality of life he deserves. She’s practical at this point - she values life, but she’s resolved to the fact that she can’t kill him, yet neither can she allow him go on killing people because, well...she values life, right? :D So, he’d live - but that traction board they had him strapped to - so that no more damage was done to his back - would unfortunately come loose when she was arranging his blankets - and gosh, darn - it was too bad that he somehow shifted on it and severed his spine - quadriplegic - such a shame...good thing she was there to see that he was properly fitted on a respirator and didn’t die. <br /><br />You see it's like a third option that makes perfect sense, so that she doesn't go against the fundamental principle of her one true goal - a nurse saving lives. And it's the secondary irony (the fact that she values life and therefore can't let him take another one) that causes her to get creative. Hey, isn’t it ironic that she can get creative because she's succeeded in her primary goal (a good nurse who values life) that she has this power to wield over him now. How else could she have 'covertly' made this quality of life decision for him - free of censure or prosecution - if not for being that nurse who is known to value life above all else? And as a trained professional isn’t she responsible for limiting risk? In this case, all those innocent women who may have become future victims - just as her mom was? Well, I’m sure when they talk about limiting risk in health care - they didn’t have this in mind, aren’t you glad I’m not your nurse? Hehehe<br /><br />Murphy - who says: Thanks for the inspired thoughts. ;) Oh, and as an aside note? I was predicating this all the fact the bad guy had diplomatic immunity and could never be prosecuted in the traditional sense in her country - so the MC had to do something, or else he’d go free - once he was recovered, and would in all likelihood - kill again.Riley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-4779968914243847072010-01-09T09:56:41.283-06:002010-01-09T09:56:41.283-06:00John, if he saw the belt, felt the desire for reve...John, if he saw the belt, felt the desire for revenge... I think there would need to be something else happen so that A would choose to spare Turnus. I don't know if it would have to be external, but I think maybe Turnus should do something, like see him looking at the belt, and take it off and hand it over, showing his repentance. <br /><br />That is, I think it would be disappointing if Aeneas just spared Turnus without any external event inspiring the change. What do you think?<br />AliciaAlicianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-25658261704749053642010-01-09T01:07:56.220-06:002010-01-09T01:07:56.220-06:00Nice one Alicia. I love it when you post brillian...Nice one Alicia. I love it when you post brilliant things that instantly click in my head and I think 'I can do that!'<br /><br />One question though: What if the scene had ended with the life being spared? Would that be a 'un-motivantion'? Would it again have to be something concrete/physical which makes him finally change his mind? or would you just go with the thinking of the fathers and lay down the sword?<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />JohnJohn Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-65353535497286240122010-01-08T17:10:16.281-06:002010-01-08T17:10:16.281-06:00Murph, I'd mostly think that the journey is ba...Murph, I'd mostly think that the journey is back to whatever she cared about before the need for vengeance or whatever distracted her. She's not exactly the same, but she still values whatever, so maybe you can integrate that towards the end?<br /><br />Like maybe she was a nurse whose goal was to get into med school and become a doctor. Then Mom is murdered or something and justice/vengeance becomes her overriding goal. Well, consider towards the end, making her nursing training be important (she saves someone's life). You could even pose in conflict her need for vengeance v. her training/value-- like the bad guy she wants to kill is bleeding, and will die, and she becomes the nurse again and saves his life. Just a thought-- that could be really fun, to think of what USED to matter and use that to pose a final conflict in the climax, say. <br /><br />Not sure that answers your question, but I don't know your specific story, but thanks for making it my blogfodder anyway! :)<br />AliciaaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-32822705884291506052010-01-08T10:10:03.525-06:002010-01-08T10:10:03.525-06:00but also reveal something about the character and ...<i>but also reveal something about the character and also amplify the story's themes.</i><br /><br />Great post, Alicia! I'm kicking around this idea. Let's say, a character's motivation is established at the beginning of a story (first scene) by a brutal external force. It's a given that the reader understands that MC wasn't always this way, but it's understandable and expected (as in the reader is going: oh yeah, kill the bastard!) This would introduce another layer, because in essence, isn't this a false motivation that has been cultivated and trusted by the reader from page one? Maybe false is the wrong word - maybe temporary is better? Because the MC didn't wake up with revenge in mind - s/he was forced to it and once 'revenge' has been served, then what? Does the MC feel better and go back to who s/he was before? No. The external dominos that have fallen during s/he's journey to get to the point of fulfilling that motivation have permanently affected them. So, tying in how those changes have, in some way, been beneficial to the character's growth as an individual is one more thing to establish for the reader in the end, right?<br />MurphyRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-43646074042022196682010-01-08T10:09:56.431-06:002010-01-08T10:09:56.431-06:00That's amazing, Mary! I had to look for a tra...That's amazing, Mary! I had to look for a translation I liked. I'd rather have just prose than rhyming British verse, but most of the translations were in couplets! <br />AEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-5486579092320927942010-01-08T09:51:42.234-06:002010-01-08T09:51:42.234-06:00Alicia:
What a wonderful post regarding motivation...Alicia:<br />What a wonderful post regarding motivation and obstacles to goals. I enjoyed it all the more because The Aeneid was the first full-length saga I translated and got a perfect score. It's still one of my favorite reads.<br />Thanks so much. This really is a must site for writers.Mary E. McCallhttp://marymccall.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-1797354045165601842010-01-07T22:05:15.858-06:002010-01-07T22:05:15.858-06:00honestly, this is one of the best sites for writer...honestly, this is one of the best sites for writers on the web. that was great.suzanneelizabeths.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14304462740451230118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-79659251257480046222010-01-07T20:08:45.175-06:002010-01-07T20:08:45.175-06:00Alicia,
In another life, of course. I just realiz...Alicia,<br /><br />In another life, of course. I just realized, you must have been about 5 when you invented Project Gutenberg.<br /><br />May I make a plug, while we're on the subject of Project Gutenberg? The best Windows reader I've seen for downloading and view PG books is Simon Haynes's yBook, which is a free download at http://www.spacejock.com/yBook.html?yBook. Install it, download the PG catalog, pick out the book(s) you want, download them, and read them without worrying about PG's sometimes interesting (ahem!) formatting of the text files. Disclosure: Simon is NOT giving me any of his profits on this. Of course, I'm not sure what his profits consist of, since he gives it away, but regardless, I don't get any. :)Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-78290445969862008272010-01-07T19:56:48.659-06:002010-01-07T19:56:48.659-06:00Alicia,
It's great to point out that many int...Alicia,<br /><br />It's great to point out that many internal motivation changes are "triggered" by external things. This is a great technique for introducing back-story-type stuff as well (memories, flashbacks, etc.).<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-39757679876169222272010-01-07T19:22:35.972-06:002010-01-07T19:22:35.972-06:00Dave, I was also Virgil's inspiration. :)
Alic...Dave, I was also Virgil's inspiration. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-79257362496627424422010-01-07T18:43:13.582-06:002010-01-07T18:43:13.582-06:00I actually hate it. Whenever this happens in a mov...I actually hate it. Whenever this happens in a movie or TV show, I start yelling, "just kill the f-ker!"<br />I understand why it's done, to increase the tension/suspense of the moment, but I prefer the heroes that just go ahead and shoot, like in "Unforgiven" when William Munny (Clint Eastwood) just goes ahead and shoots everyone, even the somewhat likable Little Bill (Gene Hackman) who begs for mercy and Munny says "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it." Bang!<br />Then again, I pretty much like anything Clint Eastwood does. :)Andrew Rosenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09215333688753781447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-69946929169443192082010-01-07T18:27:33.879-06:002010-01-07T18:27:33.879-06:00Aw, come on, Alicia, if Al Gore can claim he inven...Aw, come on, Alicia, if Al Gore can claim he invented the Internet, you can claim to have invented e-publishing. (grin)<br /><br />Great post. It's too easy to forget that a lot of the time what goes on inside a person (character or real) is triggered by outside things. It works so well for fiction because we recognize it from ourselves, I think.Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-24363948460027933052010-01-07T18:24:49.447-06:002010-01-07T18:24:49.447-06:00Dd and I are reading The Iliad together now, then ...Dd and I are reading The Iliad together now, then The O, then The Aeneid for homeschooling (ancient history) this year. This is wonderful on many levels for me.Eva Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08834856467514439544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-564606977508594002010-01-07T17:40:55.625-06:002010-01-07T17:40:55.625-06:00Marvelous post!!!! And thanks for jump-starting e...Marvelous post!!!! And thanks for jump-starting e-publishing!Weshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077791761104576436noreply@blogger.com