tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post7623361724391562529..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Foiled by DragoEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-36576668134971147972009-09-28T07:53:16.822-05:002009-09-28T07:53:16.822-05:00Thanks Dave! Jezebel will be really happy to hear...Thanks Dave! Jezebel will be really happy to hear that.<br /><br />Murphy:DRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-89397134436896450772009-09-27T22:31:40.814-05:002009-09-27T22:31:40.814-05:00Oh, and Jezebel would like the girlfriend Ron'...Oh, and Jezebel would like the girlfriend Ron's with when he first meets Judy and Maya. Greta's a retired 'courtesan' - licensed in her home habitat, of course. Hehehe. (Added that one just for you, Murphy!)Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-25312751267882405912009-09-27T22:27:24.278-05:002009-09-27T22:27:24.278-05:00Nope, not my WIP, although it would be in the same...Nope, not my WIP, although it would be in the same universe, 10 or 15 years later. I'm thinking that Maya is Sally's (the MC in my WIP) difficult younger cousin, with a bunch of the same genetic enhancements, just not the one that screwed up Sally's life expectancy but makes her such an extreme athlete. Ron's a character that was in my first draft of the WIP, but he got pulled because his subplot didn't add anything vital to the story. I keep fiddling with him, though, in hopes he'll find a home. Maybe this one will be it, someday...Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-6024813157289722592009-09-27T21:02:41.129-05:002009-09-27T21:02:41.129-05:00Dave? Is this your WIP? Geez, you had me going t...Dave? Is this your WIP? Geez, you had me going there with Judy Shapely - I thought she was one of Jezebel's friends.<br /><br />Murphy:DRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-76680912578381886222009-09-27T15:26:25.102-05:002009-09-27T15:26:25.102-05:00Dave said: I'm thinking that Ron only thinks ...Dave said: <i>I'm thinking that Ron only thinks he wants to be independent. He really wants to be loved and to belong. He just doesn't know it.</i><br /><br />But of course. :) Internal conflict comes exactly from this problem: a character being their own foil.<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-87681181523075328952009-09-27T14:21:07.035-05:002009-09-27T14:21:07.035-05:00Oops - should have clarified that Judy Shapley is ...Oops - should have clarified that Judy Shapley is not the love interest, although maybe I should consider making her a rival to the real one. Maya Ramesh is a wild child with issues, an alcoholic who thinks the end is nigh and that the only way to save any of her charges (and to be immortalized as a hero, of course) is to go out with a bang. Shapley hates Maya with a passion, thinking Maya's an undisciplined brat who enjoys the adrenaline rush of danger too much (not far from the truth, actually).<br /><br />Hmm - Shapley's quite a bit older than Ron, but cougars are a lot more respectable in a time when life expectancy is nearing 300 (if one isn't killed in the war, anyway). Maybe she has a secret thing for bad boys and wants to redeem him from the 'shame' of his mother's past. Yeah, definitely make her interested in Ron - thanks for the idea, ladies!<br /><br />Verminhunter's species, the Zhandenlar, are predators, bipedal tail-balancers that physically parallel velociraptors. Being kept as her 'pet' and forced to watch her and her troops devour their prey would be worse than death to Ron.<br /><br />Verminhunter hates Ron because he killed her sister through a ruse. Zhandenlar get obsessive over vengeance at times, especially when enemies behave 'dishonorably'.<br /><br />I'm thinking that Ron only thinks he wants to be independent. He really wants to be loved and to belong. He just doesn't know it.Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-81179168783351516142009-09-27T13:41:43.878-05:002009-09-27T13:41:43.878-05:00Dave:
Gee, you see? There is no wrong answer and...Dave:<br /><br />Gee, you see? There is no wrong answer and the possibilities are endless. I would have made Coates core need self preservation/survival. He's been doing it for a long time, right?<br /><br />Judy Shapely? (I bet she is!) has a core need of survival too - but hers is directed more toward the preservation of, you know, humankind.<br /><br />And Verminhunter - is the polar opposite. She's into killing, everyone - except maybe Coates. I'm with JG, what does this creature do that could terrify a man like him?<br /><br />I think an interesting parallel would be that Verminhunter who is used to obliterating whole colonies - is interested right now in one man only: Coates.<br />And that one man, who is used to taking care of himself and surviving, finds himself drawn into helping a slew of refugees and by his sheer presence among them, could place them in greater danger - I’d probably draw on all that... <br /><br />MurphyRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-40684140446962208212009-09-27T12:43:32.090-05:002009-09-27T12:43:32.090-05:00Green Knight,
Yes, that's a great way to put ...Green Knight,<br /><br />Yes, that's a great way to put it. Imagine the scenario and let the characters who would get involved in that scenario introduce themselves to you. :)<br /><br />I guess I do that sometimes too. I just hadn't put it into words before.<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-37555485091541073582009-09-27T12:40:05.748-05:002009-09-27T12:40:05.748-05:00Okay, Dave, I'll bite. (*ahem* Sorry, genre hu...Okay, Dave, I'll bite. (*ahem* Sorry, genre humor there...)<br /><br />So, I'd peg Coates's core need as something along the lines of a need for independence. Judy (the alluring woman?) is a foil in that she challenges his need by making him care about others even more than he's already been doing lately. Her reckless actions in regards to the enemy will force him to get more involved. And she represents a whole group of people that need his involvement. No longer independent, he has a whole group acting as "ball-and-chains". LOL!<br /><br />The enemy is an obvious foil in the standard way, but most importantly because of your note that she considers dealing with Coates as "personal". To really milk this foil-aspect, you'd have to make her threatened action against him more than just death. If she directly challenged his independence that would be more "foil-like". Does she have a reputation for keeping prisoners, etc.? What does she do to them that terrifies him?<br /><br />Thanks for the story, Dave!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-21973211758218883592009-09-27T08:27:18.631-05:002009-09-27T08:27:18.631-05:00Okay, let's see what y'all make of this on...Okay, let's see what y'all make of this one:<br /><br />Ron Coates was orphaned when he was 12, and has no close relatives that he knows about. He's survived to the age of 33 by his wits and by the kindness of people who knew his mother, a woman of somewhat questionable virtue who never told him who his father was. Now stuck in the middle of a war, he's profited by his ability to slip behind enemy lines to retrieve items of value, including bits of intelligence about what the enemy is doing. He presents himself as independent, clever, and tough, a facade that fools most people, but not himself. Too many people he cares about have died or are in danger, and it's weighing on him.<br /><br />Against his better judgment, he becomes entangled with a group of refugees that a faction among the enemy has marked for extermination. The human military wants him to lead the refugees to a new colony, hoping they can hide until the war is over and the enemy has forgotten them. He'd turn the job down, but the admirals have plenty of blackmail material on him, his mother knew some of the refugees well and he can't just walk away from them, and the crazy commander of the refugees' tiny military force is the most alluring woman he's ever met.<br /><br />Judy Shapley, one of the leaders of the refugees, believes that hiding is the wrong solution. She thinks the group would do better to negotiate with the enemy faction for peace, or failing that, to return home and demand that the military protect them. She can't believe that the situation is as desperate as this Coates kid, whose mother was nothing but common trash, says it is.<br /><br />Verminhunter is an alien mercenary with a powerful fleet. She's been hired by the enemy faction to eliminate the refugees, and she will not let anything as puny as the human military stand in her way. Stretched as they are by the war, there isn't much they can do against her forces anyway. She just has to find her prey. Her only real problem is the cleverness of a human named Ron Coates - a human who's tricked her too many times. The refugees are business, but Coates has become personal.Dave Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773380114295267509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-29429834318384859182009-09-27T03:56:12.741-05:002009-09-27T03:56:12.741-05:00Jami G.,
I can't design characters either. An ...Jami G.,<br />I can't design characters either. An alternative is to imagine a scenario and to cast about: If you're looking for a woman (Murphy, I'm borrowing shamelessly, because I like the setup) with ambition in a small mining town, what kind of woman would she be? Which path would she choose? Which obstacles would she run into? There are thousands of mining towns out there, and in one of them you will find the character you were looking for. <br /><br />For me, a character needs to be alive before I can write about them. <br /><br />(Word verification: locklych. That sounds like a particularly nasty type of undead. Ah, genre, never far from my mind.)green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-5616912997281369492009-09-26T21:56:30.033-05:002009-09-26T21:56:30.033-05:00Babs,
You're right, it is hard. As I mention...Babs,<br /><br />You're right, it is hard. As I mentioned above, I'd never <i>designed</i> a character in this way before. (And you can see that mine was nowhere near as fleshed out as Murphy's.) But there is no reward without risk. :) You definitely get a good star for trying! LOL!<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-78916361186270748442009-09-26T21:30:53.698-05:002009-09-26T21:30:53.698-05:00Babs,
Gold star to you for trying. No need to feel...Babs,<br />Gold star to you for trying. No need to feel guilty. If you're having a hard time making things work just ask. There are plenty of people around here who are willing to help out. Already g_k, stepped in with some great ideas. Don’t be afraid to ask, it’s the only way to learn.:)<br /><br />Hi Em,<br />Sorry I missed you in my earlier comment. Hmm...laundry motif? I really would like to call it a <i>motif</i>. I mean, that sounds so much better than just <i>a pain in butt</i>, doesn’t it? :D But ah, no, there is nothing clever about it. It was called wishful thinking. I needed to have George have a business that was integral to Mildred reaching her goal - and well, wouldn’t it be great if a gal could get her laundry done for free for a whole year? So, I thought, what the heck - someone, somewhere, even in fiction, deserved a laundry reprieve. <br /><br />Murphy:DRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-7965938012751812462009-09-26T15:47:41.666-05:002009-09-26T15:47:41.666-05:00Thank you, green_knight, that makes sense. I was ...Thank you, green_knight, that makes sense. I was thinking to have the two women work on the same project and while one works hard to get her end done the other one doesn't. But she always seems to be at the right place at the right time, because the boss is always there to applaud her efforts. I'll have to think about what they can do to win his approval. I like your question about both fighting fair. This has certainly given me something to think about. Although I still say this isn't easy - for SOME people.;)I must keep in mind that they're rivals. <br />Thanks.<br />BabsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-46492990121915041832009-09-26T13:56:49.526-05:002009-09-26T13:56:49.526-05:00Babs, I think what you have is different. Both the...Babs, I think what you have is different. Both the Johnny/Drago scenario and the one Murphy created sprang from characters who had something in common (a common goal), but who had chosen different paths to get there... which put them into opposition. And then sparks began to fly!<br /><br />Can you go back a step? Who is your MC? What are his traits? What is he looking for? Then go and consider what kind of co-worker he would be best pitted against. What do they have in common? Where do they differ? <br /><br />Never mind what the boss is actually doing - that's out of your character's hands - but concentrate on what the two rivals will do in order to get noticed, to win that approval. Do they chose the same strategy? Different strategies? Do both fight fair?green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-59426696741924536152009-09-26T13:28:05.319-05:002009-09-26T13:28:05.319-05:00Now I'm feeling guilty you guys. I did try to...Now I'm feeling guilty you guys. I did try to do it, but it's hard. I was thinking of the need for approval. I had a good situation, work related. The boss not giving his approval to my MC but lavishing it on my MC's co-worker. I just couldn't make it work out right. This exercise is harder than you think.<br />Murph, thanks for the update on Rudely Studwell.:) I think he and Sunday would make a great pair.LOL!<br />BabsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-84390578835224878132009-09-26T10:28:42.973-05:002009-09-26T10:28:42.973-05:00Murphy said: She was the only one in my scenario t...Murphy said: <i>She was the only one in my scenario that was honest about what she wants and how she’s going to get it. She makes no excuses. I think if I ever wrote something like this, I'd really like her and yet, if you'd asked me that three days ago I would have said impossible.</i><br /><br />That's awesome! And you succinctly summarized what there was to admire about her. So I think you should stop thinking in the negative (<i>I'm bad at writing bad characters.</i>) and instead put it into the positive (<i>I'm good at writing bad characters that find redemption, or at least possess some admirable qualities.</i>) :)<br /><br />Yeah, and how come we're the only ones doing the work here? You can't learn this stuff if you don't play, right? :)<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-79526474704153799062009-09-26T10:16:04.032-05:002009-09-26T10:16:04.032-05:00Hi, g_k, *waves*
Yeah, I hear you about that. Fi...Hi, g_k, *waves* <br />Yeah, I hear you about that. First I do the prelim story set-up and then I let the characters enter each scene and bounce off one another. Man, do you know how many characters Jezebel bounced off of? It was disgraceful.;) <br /><br />Babs, about Rudely Studwell. I'm sorry to say, but his wife threw him over for the young choir boy who showed them to their pew every Sunday at mass. It was curious, that all of a sudden Sundays meant something to him, too...*shrug* maybe one day he'll head out to find Ms. Sunday - you never know.<br /><br />JG? I'm so glad you got that. She's a bad character, right? (before you answer that, remember I'm Catholic and say yes) and still, as the prostitute? She was the only one in my scenario that was honest about what she wants and how she’s going to get it. She makes no excuses. I think if I ever wrote something like this, I'd really like her and yet, if you'd asked me that three days ago I would have said impossible. <br /><br />Theresa? (imagine my voice doing a sing song here) I think I've learned something else.<br /><br />Signed Murphy, who believes that no matter where you are in life, in terms of goals, success and accomplishments - there's always room to grow and learn. (Of course, in this case, you had to do the work...and I’m so glad that I did.)<br />Thanks Theresa!Riley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-32281127774812607812009-09-25T20:37:06.971-05:002009-09-25T20:37:06.971-05:00Murphy,
I can see it all now. There’d be oodles ...Murphy, <br />I can see it all now. There’d be oodles to work with. So, I'm not going to ask if you're going to write it. I will ask, because I'm curious, where do you come up with this stuff? Especially with the laundry motif. There're you are, mentioning it last week and all of a sudden it's incorporated in this new post? Either you're far too clever or there's a fix on.:)emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-81294047308242535362009-09-25T16:19:24.061-05:002009-09-25T16:19:24.061-05:00Green Knight,
Actually, I find the whole process ...Green Knight,<br /><br />Actually, I find the whole process of writing fascinating. :) I don't think I'll ever see my writing as being good as other published authors simply because I see the "sausage-making" that goes into mine. LOL!<br /><br />Now, I will admit that this exercise was hard for me <i>because</i> I had to actually create the character. Most of mine for my stories just march right into my brain and start demanding that I tell their story. So I understand where you're coming from.<br /><br />Murphy, I just <i>knew</i> you'd set it up so that I couldn't help but admire Jezebel. LOL!<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-30642950597788841822009-09-25T15:59:33.885-05:002009-09-25T15:59:33.885-05:00Murphy! I thought you were kidding about the laun...Murphy! I thought you were kidding about the laundry connection. LOL! It works. What happens to Rudely Studwell in your story?<br />BabsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-11092356056396006832009-09-25T15:42:14.135-05:002009-09-25T15:42:14.135-05:00I have to admit to being utterly fascinated by the...I have to admit to being utterly fascinated by the way people _create_ characters. Mine just walk in, and they just _are_. I construct bigger pictures from the bits I know about them - their background, their behaviour, their reaction, how they bounce off other people in the scene.green_knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499896006012152260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-10338345478134998252009-09-25T13:45:17.920-05:002009-09-25T13:45:17.920-05:00JG, how should I know if Mildred hates doing laund...JG, how should I know if Mildred hates doing laundry? If she does I don’t blame her, though.:)<br /><br />No, how the laundry comes into play is like this: Mildred has mapped out a clear path to her own independence. She has worked tirelessly to earn the respect and money she needs to make this happen. By her accounting, with her present budget, she has a year and half left before she figures she’ll have the funds she needs to buy her house and live as a woman of independent means. The catch? She’s basing all this on her current arrangement. One of the biggest facets of that is George - working his fragrant magic with her sheets (that’s a big selling point with the miners) And then the unthinkable happens. She learns Jezebel and George’s secret. If she outs them (and she’d really love to do that because you know, it wasn’t fair that Jezebel was accumulating wealth and prestige in town doing the nasty - but that’s the reality and it’s eating away at the prim and efficient Mildred.) BUT Mildred’s desire to get what she ultimately wants, outweighs her immediate desire to satisfy her lesser need. Here it comes: Her ultimate desire is independence, right? And if she spills their secret, George won’t be around to do her laundry anymore - so she’ll lose precious time, even if she could find someone as competent to take over doing it - and that would jeopardize her time frame. Maybe even extend it to two years instead of a year and half. So, Mildred decides to keep their little secret PROVIDING George does all of her laundry for free from now on. What does this get her? Out of that shit hole town six months earlier!:D Her independence established. But then, it does beg the question. In this scenario? Who’s the prostitute, now?<br />And, as for George? Well, for a year at least, that poor guy is stuck in the town doing two women’s laundry for free. So I’m thinking he’s not ready to be independent as he failed to prioritize his needs like Mildred. I mean, Jezebel is fetching, but COME ON! Yep, I’m thinking Jezebel has the right idea and it’s really frying Mildred’s ass. Especially when, at the end of that year, good old Jezzy has more money than George and Mildred combined. Ain’t that a kicker?<br /><br />Murphy:DRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-42310517561766492202009-09-25T11:27:28.662-05:002009-09-25T11:27:28.662-05:00Murphy,
Oh, I thought that was a rhetorical quest...Murphy,<br /><br />Oh, I thought that was a rhetorical question. LOL! Umm, Mildred <i>really</i> hates doing laundry? It's symbolic of something to her? Sorry, I'm drawing a blank here. :)<br /><br />Please, enlighten us...<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-59340480298647475692009-09-25T09:14:27.986-05:002009-09-25T09:14:27.986-05:00JG, do you think it's because Mildred’s a woma...JG, do you think it's because Mildred’s a woman and can relate to Jezabel on that level. I thought despite their differences in journey, Mildred, may be able to respect Jezabel's need for independence. If this is true where does the laundry come in? I think Murphy is teasing us about that.:)<br />Murph, I loved Rudely Studwell! LOL!<br />BabsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.com