tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post7581634237154307431..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Names and rolesEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-83044319836626686222008-12-22T08:54:00.000-06:002008-12-22T08:54:00.000-06:00It's called "Burley Detective Syndrome." Scroll d...It's called "Burley Detective Syndrome." Scroll down to Part One to find the reference where it orignated (an old private eye series): http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html<BR/><BR/>First, I think it depends on viewpoint. If I read "the visitor" in first or third, I think I'll have problems with it. It's actually too vague for the viewpoint. In omnscient, I think it's more acceptable--but that the reference also shouldn't be too vague. For me, The visitor would be too vague; The assasain would be a little more specific.<BR/><BR/>But, I also think it should be used sparingly. I just read a book, done in omniscient, where one character was referred to as "The vampire" for the entire book. After a while, I started thinking, "You can't be bothered to tell me his name?"<BR/><BR/>For the descriptive ones, I agree--they sound fake. It gives me the impression the author is trying to slip in a description without taking the time to do the description. And why on earth would a first person or third person POV think of a character they know as "the blonde woman"? It comes across as the author is uncomfortable with using the name!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-50135059998077189982008-12-20T15:44:00.000-06:002008-12-20T15:44:00.000-06:00Well, in this case, I'd say that you're using the ...Well, in this case, I'd say that you're using the big idiot just as a descriptor, not as an identifier. If two paragraphs down, you use the big idiot-- well, that's actually in his POV, isn't it? I mean, it's not like M is really an idiot.<BR/><BR/>POV is all. If it comes from within the POV character, it's going to be okay-- at least if you make this an interesting POV, and clear and such.<BR/>AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-46318710607668064732008-12-19T18:09:00.000-06:002008-12-19T18:09:00.000-06:00It's interesting that I used caps here, Alicia -- ...It's interesting that I used caps here, Alicia -- because I actually don't. <BR/><BR/>Example:<BR/><BR/>When the shadow fell over him, he knew better than to hope some higher being had agreed with his plan. It *had* to be Mitchell, and not just because the big idiot was probably the only other person who knew about this spot.<BR/><BR/>Does that show anything, or do you need a better example?Susan Helene Gottfriedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778191943289129869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-24092068304326328992008-12-19T14:37:00.000-06:002008-12-19T14:37:00.000-06:00Susan, do you think it helps that you cap the refe...Susan, do you think it helps that you cap the references? If Trevor is using The Blonde as almost a nickname, he'd sort of capitalize it in his head.<BR/>AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-73179311985763960412008-12-19T14:23:00.000-06:002008-12-19T14:23:00.000-06:00Arriving a little late to the party... when I'm in...Arriving a little late to the party... when I'm in Trevor's point of view, I use lots of those nicknames, particularly when he's talking about Mitchell. The Blonde. The Big Idiot. Wuss. <BR/><BR/>But that's part of Trevor's point of view. It's part of the Trevor-Mitchell dynamic (oh, dear, that makes them sound like lovers, not the best friends they are). It's part of how Trevor views Mitchell. <BR/><BR/>I *think* my audience gets it. I've never directly asked them, but I'd be surprised if they couldn't pick out Trevor's attitudes. They are pretty... emphatic.<BR/><BR/>In my other characters, I tend to not do that as much. Yeah, in my last outtake, I referred to Daniel as "the drummer" -- because I had to call him something and calling him by name again was too repetitive. Overall, I'm not a fan of those sorts of tags in my own writing.Susan Helene Gottfriedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778191943289129869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-56945525228148398152008-12-19T13:31:00.000-06:002008-12-19T13:31:00.000-06:00On a related note, I struggled with how to refer t...On a related note, I struggled with how to refer to a law school student before my pov character, about 7 or 8 years older, knew her name. I graduated from a women's college where calling a fellow student a "girl" was verboten. ("Lady" was possibly worse.) And then I went on to work in law firms where people in their twenties would say, "this girl I know..."<BR/><BR/>Although for a student, "woman" can seem formal or stilted, I ended up using young woman and woman, because I think that's what the POV character would have done. <BR/><BR/>And I got her name out there quickly! From then on, it was her name/pronoun.jazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09559917865938143791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-33207488842762409522008-12-19T11:51:00.000-06:002008-12-19T11:51:00.000-06:00Yes, it would pull you right out of the POV, becau...Yes, it would pull you right out of the POV, because the POV character wouldn't think of someone's job, at least not combined with her haircolor!<BR/><BR/>AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-70592390118482320572008-12-19T08:22:00.000-06:002008-12-19T08:22:00.000-06:00Mmm...the use of generic terms? I like the idea o...Mmm...the use of generic terms? I like the idea of them, on the level that it gives the author a comfortable distance from the fear of empowering a character that has little relevance to the scene, while offering needed clarity to the story’s form and flow. I mean, if a character is immaterial - then giving this character more than a casual reference of: her, she, that gal or the other woman, (like the POV character imparting information about specific characteristics like hair color and line of work) - implies an intimate expectation to the reader, about that character -doesn’t it? And if this information isn’t going to further the storyline, why did the POV make such a distinction in the first place? Sometimes I like to use physical placement to clarify - like ‘the woman on the right’ – or how about setting characters apart by ‘current’ action - ‘Jason eyed the guy smoking the cigar, before turning his attention to--? Where the reader can make the distinction in a scene, between certain characters, at the same time that the POV character, does - through their commonplace actions. As for the blonde ad exec.? Doesn’t this comment imply history and prior knowledge somewhere - That the reader is just supposed to accept from the POV? I mean, when did the POV learn what she did for a living? Why would the POV character notice her hair color? Is she the only woman in the room that is blonde? And as for her line work – is it unique in someway? Pertinent to the story? I feel it’s almost too personal, if it has no relationship to the storyline, - distracting maybe? You say: to replicate the feeling that the other is, well, the other - to me, means giving a certain character a place in the scene, where they can be acknowledged for being present - but, not an important place - that they should matter too much, because he/she is only ‘the other’ - after all, right?Riley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-19002806340649450492008-12-18T19:34:00.001-06:002008-12-18T19:34:00.001-06:00Augh. That smacks of the Nancy Drew books. I've di...Augh. That smacks of the Nancy Drew books. I've disliked that style ever since. The "attractive redhead" or the "convertible-driving sleuth" was always doing something to irritate me....Rachael Herronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07270448844817370210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-82492781156260473202008-12-18T19:34:00.000-06:002008-12-18T19:34:00.000-06:00I agree with you that things like "the blonde ad e...I agree with you that things like "the blonde ad exec" sound false. I usually use a name or pronoun, although I sometimes will say something like, "Mary glanced at her friend." But Mary would never glance at the petite travel agent:-)<BR/>When a reference pulls me out of the story like "blonde ad exec" would, it screams wrong and amateurish to me.Dara Edmondsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03074955377079380225noreply@blogger.com