tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post6350538298233696311..comments2023-09-05T12:51:25.656-05:00Comments on edittorrent: Jami's editsEdittorrenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-14445496627413365792009-07-16T20:27:33.946-05:002009-07-16T20:27:33.946-05:00Em:
Me as well! Just brilliant!Em:<br /><br />Me as well! Just brilliant!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-32883270364546137502009-07-16T19:33:11.089-05:002009-07-16T19:33:11.089-05:00Alicia & Theresa?
Did you see Murph's sto...Alicia & Theresa?<br /><br />Did you see Murph's story in the previous post? If not you have to read it. You have to!<br /><br />Babs? She was right. I'm still laughing!:)<br />Ememhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-71910414659894434812009-07-15T16:09:54.549-05:002009-07-15T16:09:54.549-05:00That sounds right, Jami. I'm still in brain fo...That sounds right, Jami. I'm still in brain fog, so won't say definitively, but yours sounded right. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-7802224947484107862009-07-15T16:07:24.359-05:002009-07-15T16:07:24.359-05:00Wes, Mrs. Flood would be very happy that you got t...Wes, Mrs. Flood would be very happy that you got that appositive right!<br /><br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-68460497769606344732009-07-15T16:05:48.684-05:002009-07-15T16:05:48.684-05:00Murphy, that's why there's a copy editor b...Murphy, that's why there's a copy editor backstopping me. I make typos too. :)<br /><br />Also, there are commas when a name is used in direct address, and I don't remember whether that's the case with yours. Sorry, I don't remember. In one eye and out the other. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-5335328353826381642009-07-15T14:56:15.562-05:002009-07-15T14:56:15.562-05:00Hi Jordan!
Glad your mother stared the teacher do...Hi Jordan!<br /><br />Glad your mother stared the teacher down. For me, the best part of your story was:<br /><br />"Call me, Ishmael." [Let's do lunch.]<br /><br />Hilarious!<br /><br />MurphyRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-46932686116229886742009-07-15T12:11:28.766-05:002009-07-15T12:11:28.766-05:00I think I used to know how to use a comma, but aft...I think I used to know how to use a comma, but after reading this I'm not so sure. There's quite a bit to take in, isn't there?<br /><br />Jordan that was a good story.:)<br /><br />Jami G? Haven't you noticed? Murphy is impossible to ignore!;)<br /><br />I think I'll have to print this and read it over a few times.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703292678697973295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-24462533123685129862009-07-15T11:53:37.294-05:002009-07-15T11:53:37.294-05:00Jordan,
That's a good one!Jordan, <br />That's a good one!emhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680468150513341426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-87482554464753935132009-07-15T11:45:51.764-05:002009-07-15T11:45:51.764-05:00Wes & Alicia,
Oh! *waves hand* Pick me! Pic...Wes & Alicia,<br /><br />Oh! *waves hand* Pick me! Pick me! Okay, so if I understand the use of commas with appositives correctly, then your comma after Mrs. Flood <i>would</i> be correct since your appositive was more than one word <b>and</b> you weren't using the name as the appositive (my...teacher...guru Mrs. Flood).<br /><br />So, Teach, did I get it right? :)<br /><br />Trying really, really hard to wrap my brain around this stuff (especially after only a few hours of sleep),<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-75406929697762012452009-07-15T10:28:30.296-05:002009-07-15T10:28:30.296-05:00I have a funny apposition story:
When I was in mi...I have a funny apposition story:<br /><br />When I was in middle school, I read <em>The Scarlet Pimpernel</em> over the summer so I'd be ready for the September book report. And then I forgot to write the report. So I turned it in days late. The day I turned it in, we learned about appositives.<br /><br />I got back my book report and I'd gotten a D with all the late deductions. The two points that pushed me from a C to a D were deducted for NOT putting a comma in this sentence:<br /><br />He called himself[,] the Scarlet Pimpernel.<br /><br />My mother (BA in English) went to the line for me and brought her grammar textbooks to show the teacher that was ridiculous. The most the teacher would admit was that it was <em>optional</em> there. (Even after my mom pointed out the most famous opening in literature would be "Call me, Ishmael." [Let's do lunch.])<br /><br />I got the two points back. And I've never forgotten how wrong that teacher was. ;)<br /><br />Great discussion on burying clues!Jordanhttp://jordanmccollum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-44142422078044431112009-07-15T10:26:00.297-05:002009-07-15T10:26:00.297-05:00Welcome back.
Your analysis, Alicia, is a tour de...Welcome back.<br /><br />Your analysis, Alicia, is a tour de force. Sometimes when I read what you and Theresa write, my head hurts. I wish I could tell Mrs. Flood, my high school English teacher and sentence diagramming guru, what I've learned.<br /><br />PS: Is my use of commas after "Mrs. Flood" correct?Weshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077791761104576436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-74295509203243735722009-07-15T10:08:19.865-05:002009-07-15T10:08:19.865-05:00Alicia,
*Shhh* Ignore Murphy over there... :) ...Alicia,<br /><br />*Shhh* Ignore Murphy over there... :) Okay, so call me a sick puppy, but I woke up at 4am and <i>thought</i> I might have figured out this sentence adverb stuff.<br /><br />So, in the original example, the "instead of" was referring to a gerund (the "sharing her dream") that was acting as the noun of the sentence, so that would make the "instead" at the beginning of the sentence incorrect. However (and if I'm wrong here, just chalk it up to being awake since 4am), in my example above, the "instead of" refers to "showing concern" which sits in the verb spot (I think) of the previous sentence, so it'd be okay to have "instead" at the beginning of sentence. *crosses fingers* Did <i>those</i> sentences make any sense? And if so, was I right?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-78584624517679534242009-07-15T09:15:20.258-05:002009-07-15T09:15:20.258-05:00Alicia:
I'm just pointing this out. Only sayi...Alicia:<br />I'm just pointing this out. Only saying, you know? But, when I did my reworked version and cut and pasted from YOUR example - that comma was in there.:D<br />MurphyRiley Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817930302085699222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-49231786897969367312009-07-15T00:39:10.988-05:002009-07-15T00:39:10.988-05:00I'm too sleepy to think of anything-- let me t...I'm too sleepy to think of anything-- let me try tomorrow instead. Or Instead, I'll try tomorrow. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-65971405573768353682009-07-15T00:23:52.708-05:002009-07-15T00:23:52.708-05:00Alicia,
I think I'm closer to understanding t...Alicia,<br /><br />I think I'm closer to understanding the sentence adverb stuff. Could you maybe give an example of when it would be appropriate to use "instead" (or another adverb) at the beginning of a sentence? I'm noticing now that I tend to use it to contrast the situation between two sentences (usually they're right next to each other):<br /><br />He didn’t seem concerned by her lack of greeting in return. Instead, his eyes widened as though he’d just remembered something.<br /><br />And I'm wondering if I'm <i>always</i> wrong. :) If so, maybe I'll just need to come up with a different word for these situations - "rather"? Or do I just need to move the "instead"?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-48989332086597449672009-07-14T23:09:04.313-05:002009-07-14T23:09:04.313-05:00And you are being entirely fair. There it is, in p...And you are being entirely fair. There it is, in plain text. Their fault if they didn't connect the dots. :)<br />aEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-8698745875294779322009-07-14T22:54:45.982-05:002009-07-14T22:54:45.982-05:00Alicia,
Yes, burying clues is one of my favorite ...Alicia,<br /><br />Yes, burying clues is one of my favorite tools. In this same WIP, I mention an important clue <b>3</b> times and not one of my readers has guessed it in advance because it's buried all 3 times. They all get the *smack forehead with palm* reaction when it's revealed, saying that they should have seen that coming. I just <b>love</b> that... :)<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-32461664113657720472009-07-14T22:41:23.320-05:002009-07-14T22:41:23.320-05:00Jami, what do you think? Isn't it amazing how ...Jami, what do you think? Isn't it amazing how everyone notices something different? And how cool it is that your intention (to bury the "command") is recognized? Nice and subtle. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-1123052998358112632009-07-14T22:36:58.911-05:002009-07-14T22:36:58.911-05:00Murphy,
Naw, there's no "poor Jami"...Murphy,<br /><br />Naw, there's no "poor Jami" here. :) I'm loving all this help. And on top of everything, we get Alicia giving us more mind-blowing grammar instruction... Whew! This is great stuff.<br /><br />So, I can't figure out how to move "quickly" and follow Alicia's suggestion to have a transition word between the yawn and covering phrases. But I didn't notice the doubling of "add" until you pointed it out. Thanks!<br /><br />She cringed at his perfectly innocent question. Before he noticed, she quickly faked another yawn to cover her face with her hands. Sharing with Caleb the reasons she’d stared at the ceiling for hours last night would only lead to more guilt. It was bad enough that she’d dreamed about her ex-boyfriend Daniel. Add in his command that had burrowed into her thoughts – ‘<i>Come to me</i>’ – and her dream would sound downright horrible. She offered instead, “Uh-huh.”<br /><br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-17920705155230165082009-07-14T22:34:26.256-05:002009-07-14T22:34:26.256-05:00Alicia,
Thanks for trying to wring some more sens...Alicia,<br /><br />Thanks for trying to wring some more sense out of those rules for me! I certainly wasn't arguing with you about the comma (I'm sorry if it came off that way, but believe me, I'll trust your brain cells over mine any day), I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding the correct rule correctly. :)<br /><br />Thank you again for all that you do to help us here!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-13753121414611369762009-07-14T22:00:39.057-05:002009-07-14T22:00:39.057-05:00Sorry to dupe there. But one more thing I want to ...Sorry to dupe there. But one more thing I want to make clear:<br /><i>Commas are not necessary for name appositives ever, </i><br /><br />I should say-- this isn't really discretionary. You are not supposed to use a comma with a name appositive following a non-restrictive noun. <br /><br />There are certain mechanical errors that make us think that someone isn't entirely sophisticated, and this is that sort of error. It's not a huge problem, and it's easily fixed. But as I noticed it, it would register for me. I'd never reject an otherwise good ms for that, but I would notice, and I would think that the writer had not absorbed all the grammar rules from her reading. NOT a big deal-- but I'd notice, and the error would have a bit of meaning for me. I might be dealing with a fabulous storyteller, an amazing characterizer, but I would suspect I wasn't dealing with a top-level wordsmith. <br /><br />That is not as important as storytelling, not by a mile, of course. Easy to fix commas. Not easy to fix stories. But if you want to burnish your prose, well, take out the damned comma. :)Edittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-35993045643221375042009-07-14T21:53:53.852-05:002009-07-14T21:53:53.852-05:00Okay. Notice that "sharing the dream" is...Okay. Notice that "sharing the dream" is a NOUN. It's a gerund (-ing word used as a noun) but it is the subject of the sentence. So "instead of a noun"-- that should be in a noun role, because the antecedent (what it refers to) is a noun. <br /><br />This is one of those examples of when it's probably best not to investigate intuition. But I really do think I'm right, and all along I thought it was an antecedent problem (like the "it" above there).<br />And I think I was right. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-7566318035656340512009-07-14T21:53:53.107-05:002009-07-14T21:53:53.107-05:00Okay. Notice that "sharing the dream" is...Okay. Notice that "sharing the dream" is a NOUN. It's a gerund (-ing word used as a noun) but it is the subject of the sentence. So "instead of a noun"-- that should be in a noun role, because the antecedent (what it refers to) is a noun. <br /><br />This is one of those examples of when it's probably best not to investigate intuition. But I really do think I'm right, and all along I thought it was an antecedent problem (like the "it" above there).<br />And I think I was right. :)<br />AliciaEdittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-39056369300369797422009-07-14T21:50:53.906-05:002009-07-14T21:50:53.906-05:00Commas are not necessary for name appositives ever...Commas are not necessary for name appositives ever, except when you restrict the noun it modifies-- kind of complicated, and you don't do that. But if you said:<br />She thought nostalgically of her fourth ex-boyfriend, Daniel--<br /><br />That is, you'd use the comma if you are making a point in the sentence that he's not the only ex-boyfriend.<br />Daniel, her ex-boyfriend, was stalking her.<br /><br />See, in that, "Daniel" is the noun, and "her ex-boyfriend" is the appositive, neither one word or a name. It's the role the name plays that counts-- when it's an appositive, it's not set off with commas. That's just the rule.<br /><br />As for "instead," you got me. I can't explain it anymore than I did. I just know that if you have "instead" as the sentence adverb beginning the sentence, there's an antecedent problem that was too complicated to figure out (or explain). And that problem vanishes when you use "instead" as a noun/direct object at the end of the quote tag. I'm sure if I had some brain cells left, I'd explain it better. Transformative sentence diagramming would help too. <br /><br />I'd just say-- what do you mean by "instead"? If you mean "instead of another noun-thing", then "instead" should be in a noun position (as the direct object, as I suggested). <br /><br />Sorry. This is the sort of intuitive change I'd make but have trouble justifying, and I hope no one would argue enough to make me justify it. :)<br />Alicia<br /><br /><br />As you have it, no comma. Sorry.Edittorrenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295505709568570553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6824896765631412903.post-65892128524308283992009-07-14T21:36:41.124-05:002009-07-14T21:36:41.124-05:00Hi Alicia,
Thank you so much for your comments. ...Hi Alicia,<br /><br />Thank you so much for your comments. I have a couple of questions for you, however...<br /><br />- Can you clarify when you would/would not use a comma for the appositive? I <i>think</i> you were trying to explain that if the appositive is just one word that the comma wasn't always necessary. See, I thought that if we switched the order (...dreamed about Daniel, her ex-boyfriend.) and needed a comma, that we'd need a comma in the other order too. But I'm probably confused about how to figure this out. :)<br /><br />- Are you <i>trying</i> to make our brains explode with the sentence adverb stuff? (Just kidding - I'm just having a hard time following all that.) I guess I was thinking that she was saying B (Uh-huh) instead of A (sharing her dream). So, does that mean that because the action is still "saying" you wouldn't want a sentence adverb (at the beginning of the sentence) and you'd instead want the "instead" in the sentence itself? (I'm not even sure that sentence made sense I'm so discombobulated with this...) Can you help explain this more?<br /><br />In answer to your question, yes, it's okay that the "Come to me" gets buried (believe me, it all gets revisited much more later), because the "Uh-huh" dialogue <i>is</i> the point of the paragraph in that it leads into the next line:<br /><br />“Right.” He stood up and mussed his rumpled brown hair in what she recognized as mild frustration with her vague answer, but he didn’t press the issue.<br /><br />At this point in the story, it's more about her reaction to the dream than the dream itself. The reader suspects that the dream is important more than she does. When she has another dream the following night, the reader only has to know that it had happened before. Yes, I <i>love</i> burying clues in the middle of sentences and paragraphs.<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Jami G.Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.com